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111681-torn-i-like-draken-storyline-but-dominion-is-still-like-waaaaay-evil
Page 1, Page 2 Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Same can be said about the Exile mercs. Exiles aren't underdogs; they are criminals (in the eyes of the dominion). Honestly, you would be a criminal in our country as well if you stole military equipment and killed thousands of civilians in a failed coup. The writers do a good job of making a grey situation superficially appear black and white if all you've experienced was one side of the story. | |} ---- Do you have a name and video of this? I shall take this to the high tree Ornar and then they can judge their crimes! Also I am highly against poisoning civilians or even soldiers. Mostly because I don't wanna be poisoned. | |} ---- ---- I'd ask what alliance? | |} ---- I didn't think I'd need to specify which game. Warcraft. | |} ---- >> Oh sorry didn't play it I was hoping you meant as in Rebel Alliance lol Was all excited :) | |} ---- ---- RP What vile slander is this Exile scum? Too long have we citizens of the Dominion suffered the indignity of such an odious band of terrorists and rabble rousers! If you weren't cowering among the holy relics of our glorious Eldan forbears we would clense this holy planet of your traitorous ilk with the full might of the Imperial armada! Fire would rain upon your traitorous heads until nought but ash remained of Brightland's rag tag band of failed usurpers! /RP LoL, I will say the faction set up is done pretty well. The righteous indignation on both sides sets up a pretty strong and emotional conflict. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Welcome to Earth. | |} ---- Yah but i think it's far too easy for the Exiles to pull the "we're fighting for our survival" card when you highlight the bad things they've done in game. I think Dominion should have our own saying...we blew up Arboria? deal with it /sunglasses /folds arms /rolls away on hoverboard. | |} ---- War is Hell. And asymmetric warfare has been used by far more well-intentioned organizations than the Exiles. | |} ---- I created a Roleplay Debate thread for you and TexArcana in the Roleplay forum. You two may have at if you want. :) | |} ---- lol thanks but I'm good. As for both sides; they are both quite bad and quite good. An example on the Dominion side is they didn't actually destroy Arboria; They captured the planet and are harvesting it's resources. Planets still there, still Aurin living there (albeit hiding from the Chua). Very much like RL wars for oil rich lands. Exiles wouldn't have to be fighting for survival if they didn't try to start a rebellion on Cassius. And sorry, but no. Killing civilians isn't ok in War, perhaps some folks need to re-read the Geneva conventions eh :) | |} ---- lols. I thought you were one of the RP'ers that played both? | |} ---- glory to the DOMINION! | |} ---- Like you said, sounds kinda real life doesnt it? lol | |} ---- I don't play Dominion to role-play. I play Exile for that. I play Dominion because Exiles can't PVP their way out of a paper bag - and I like being part of a team, rather than me being the team and 9 other idiots running around like headless chickens. That is why I have a Dominion character - to be able to enjoy PVP. As an Exile, in a PUG environment? Forget about winning more than once every ten matches. I don't know what's so hard about "FIGHT AT THE MASK" that Exile players can't understand, but you may as well be asking them to perform rocket surgery. They either can't or won't or the entirety of Exile PVPers are actually bots. No, scratch that. Bots can actually accidentally be useful every once in a while. | |} ---- Yes. Here's the problem. The Exiles are not a single faction. They are a loose confederation of free individuals. They employ mostly mercenary fighters; FCON is their largest military branch and literally stands for 'Free Companies of Nexus' (a Free Company was a mercenary unit not tied to a government or any sort of higher authority.) Each Exile citizen is free to do whatever they want, and government structures are local. The incident you're describing was perperated by the Black Hoods, and Avra Darkos does not answer to anyone but herself. She is under the Exile banner because the 'Exiles' amount to 'anyone who will work together and isn't Dominion.' It's very easy for the player or other parts of the faction to distance themselves from groups like the Black Hoods because local Exile governments are autonomous and usually have nothing to do with those groups in the slightest. By the way, the basis for that plague came from Dominion bio-weapons that the Black Hoods confiscated from Dominion troops preparing to deploy them against the Exiles in Galeras. The Dominion, on the other hand, are all one single government. They are all part of the same command structure. One cannot distance oneself from the mass graves of executed Exile prisoners in Whitevale, for example, because there are no local governments, everyone is a cog in the same machine and thus has to shoulder at least some of the blame for the Dominion's worse atrocities. | |} ---- Details! Don't bother the Dommies with petty details like "we stole the weapons you were going to use on US and instead used them on YOU!" | |} ---- ---- It's okay, the Dominion is battling bravely against the barely technology advanced heathens and the chronically ill. Go Dominion! | |} ---- This is sooooo hilariously hypocritical Dominion behavior is directly attributed to the destruction of an entire planet.... Twice. You know, if Dominion hadn't destroyed their planet Aurin would have been in perfectly in harmony with it today... but ... no continue to pick at their failure to adapt to an entirely new ecosystem. That's fair. | |} ---- Exiles do not have any regional government. Tempest Refuge, Thermock Hold, etc, are all autonomously governed by local government officials. The Exiles as a whole have no standing military, only free companies of mercenaries. Being a free company precludes government affiliation. Can you cite the actions of any defensive or offensive Exile force that is not a free company or local militia? Likewise, Dominion have local government officials, but they are NOT autonomous. Local governments are run by Luminai governors that are given their posts and serve underneath the Emperor. Every single one of them. Likewise they have a standing military, and while it has different military commands like every military force, they are all part of one single military machine, which is not the case for the Exile free companies. | |} ---- ---- Hi there, Dominion and Exile player here (50 Chua and Cassian medics; 50 Mordesh Engi/ 50 Aurin stalker). You are actually incorrect. The weapon being used in Galleras was a toxicological agent produced by the chua; The weapon in Hycrest was a weaponized virus produced by the Mordesh virologists. The two are unrelated except in the sense that they are examples of both factions committing heinous atrocities. There was also the incompetence driven contamination of Ellevar by the Mordesh Alchemists; another unrelated but exemplary situation. The Dominion is NOT a unified military machine. DRED (the research branch headed by Mondo) is perpetually at odds with the Dominion Legion (headed by Kezerek). Both often engage in operations counter to the others goals, and they are certainly not unified. Additionally the Radiant Church opperates it's own elite forces under the Radiant Legion (headed by probably the only real honourable man in the game, Toric Antevian). The ICI does it's own thing while manipulating events just as the Black hoods do. Make no mistake, both Avra and Axis (the heads of the Black Hoods / ICI respectively) dominate political power in their respective factions. | |} ---- ---- Somehow, using WMD toxins on all of hycrest strikes me as..... a tiny bit evil. | |} ---- This topic would have been cooler if it was about DRUNKEN STORYTELLING. :) | |} ---- Me too. I have multiple 50s on both sides and on muliple servers. You obviously missed a lot. Not responding to you further though because you have a tendency to drag every conversation you engage in off the rails. | |} ---- ---- a real war? no a fictional war in a video game? it is whatever the writers say it is. They could have made good vs evil black and white in this game. But they didnt...they instead chose to write the Exiles with flaws of their own, and Dominions with non-evil characteristics. What makes *me* shake my head is how an Exile player reacts when you tell them about some of the things their faction/NPCs do. Find yourself a fresh player that after a few minutes of playing an Exile would rather play them then Dom because they think that Exiles are the good guys. Now tell that player about some of the questionable things that their faction does in quests and whatnot. That player isnt going to switch to Dom, or quit the game. They are going to try and justify the actions somehow so that they can keep on playing. Or they'll come up with some other lame excuse or just ignore it all together. And that's actually ok...personally i think that people shouldnt let stuff like that stop them from choosing a faction they like. If you need to find a reason to play exile but cant because of some of the bad stuff they've done then make something up. That's why i'm glad i dont use reasons like religion, good vs evil or anything like that to choose factions. That way i dont have to go "uhhh uhhh uhhh uhhh" when somebody tells me that my chosen evil faction has a sub-group of good guys like Toric and the Radiants. So my reason actually end up being something like the Chua are fat, cute and awesome or the armor sets look really cool on Female Cassians. And yes i did choose Dominion only because of the Chua /dance /sleep emote. | |} ---- Your demonstrably false statements about the relatedness of canonically separate events suggests otherwise. If you are going to dodge a discussion because you are wrong, at least be more creative next time? Because making false ad hom against other members of the discussion is bad form. Anyone who thinks for a second you are correct in your claims against my person can re-read my posts / threads on the lore forums. Where among other things I predicted the Defile storyline almost 2 months in advance, and have contributed greatly to the lore- based discussions on the game. Best, Naz | |} ---- You're alright Nazy! *ruffles hair* So who's more evil us or the fuzzybutt chua? | |} ---- ---- It's easy to miss the subtle things in the early dominion zones. If you start in Levian Bay, after the Exiles attack the Star-comm station and you leave through the cave in the back, stop near the mouth of the cave. You'll notice a Cassian Medic treating an injured Aurin. If you haven't ever done it before, sit through their entire conversation. It's a good one, placed right at the start of the Dominion story :) (you can access Levian bay via the ship in the first town in Ellevar) As for whitevale, There is some pretty terrible stuff on both sides. The Dominion prison is pretty darn sketchy / terrible. But there is also the Exile-squirg zombie apocalypse that, of all people, you and Mondo Zax stop from taking over Nexus (IIRC it's Rhoda who heads the Exile portion, but it's been a while since I ran it on my Engi). There is also the point in the story where you watch a group of FCON mercs, Kill Major Aurelis' son, for no other reason than him being the son of the Major. I think Wildstarnewbie hit it on the head. If you start with one faction, it's hard to accept that they are just as bad as another. And there is nothing wrong with that, that's how we are in RL as well. Between RL humans and Chua it's easy (it's us) Talking in-game (e.g. Chua vs Aurin) It's a toss up. Saying Chua is too easy, after all they just want to science! So what if a few hundred folks die in the process? But saying Aurin is also too easy, heck they will literally kill you if you are grumpy (grumpyness /meanness carries a death sentence in Aurin culture). Neither? Both? Let me put it this way, If I wanted to build a particle accelerator I'd call a Chua first; if I wanted to plant a garden I would call an Aurin first..... I would keep neither around long after that though. | |} ---- This is why I love the story in Wildstar, also grumpyness is serious thing! Could explain why Dominion did not give Aurin a choice to join, only race that wasn't given that choice as I understand it (Still gathering lore stuffs) Lesson here is each Aurin and Chua are different. My Aurin would not sentence someone to death forbeing mean, Maybe send them to Hugging Reform School. ^.^ | |} ---- Eh, there was a big thread about this in the lore section too. I won't rehash it here but I will say this: Arwick presented the Queen with the option of aligning with the Dominion. She refused. P.S. Hugging reform school.... I love it. There should be one in every Aurin settlement to send the captured Dommies to ! (imagine teaching a chua to hug!) | |} ---- Oh thought they just destroyed the planet, because the Millinials were all upset with them. Also Chua surrounded by soft plushies perfumey lace, and adorable hugsters :D Oops mentioned the Hugster Union right? | |} ---- What? Exiles unleashing a plague in the forest of Ellevar, Exiles Poisoning innocent farmers in Auroria, Exile Aurin trying to Teraform, killing off all life and ecosystem and replacing it with something closer to Aboria in Deradune and Auroria isn't evil? But yet because we shoot down a carrier, Carrying a defunct Cassian Spy with who knows what secret information. We're evil? | |} ---- The whole point is that the Dominion created all these problems themselves. The Terraforming is a non-issue because it wouldn't have occured if the Dominion hadn't "terraformed" Arboria for no reason. "Dominion or Die" is not a choice. Having a culture of hospitality is not a crime. The Dominion is a source of its own Wars and it's own terrorism. Blaming people for fighting back is what bullies do. | |} ---- I'll reiterate a post I made a long while back on a similar discussion. Not particularly aimed at you, but it seemed appropriate. You are on a planet, where the "Master" race has manipulated and created life for its own purposes over the millennia, and then summarily executed their creations when they were either done, or it didn't work out the way they intended. They have abducted other sentient life forms as well, altered their genetics, and imprisoned them on this same planet as well. (See the entire Torine Race.) They did this, to create a god. In their race for power and glory, not only did they forget to hook up the doll, they managed to create an entity which ultimately destroyed their entire race. But not before conquering the known galaxy, engineering a race to rule them all, and then forbidding them from ever coming to nexus.... which they promptly did anyways. Now, the races have come home to their masters. On a planet filled with failed experimentations, mutations, and augmentations, locked in a war in which they have both committed atrocities, so that they can fight to the death over which of these morons can own a planet filled with the technology that can wipe out all life in the galaxy, and possibly the universe. There are no good guys. Just two groups hell bent on power. Everything else, much like in life, is simply justification for those pursuits. The only real good guys in this game....are the lopp, which falls immediately to the wayside after you do the Groomsmen quest in Whitevale, and discover one of the groomsmen surrounded by bodies saying... "what did lopp do?". So yeah.... ideally if you were going to look for a race in this game that was "good". I'd probably pick the Torine, and their duty to protect element of life from falling into the hands of the strain. Or even Drusera has purer motives than the two factions. They all have purpose. The rest of us are just squabbling over the table scraps. | |} ---- ---- When playing Dominion, literally the first thing you do in the tutorial zone is torture prisoners for information. You go on to practice simulations of burning down aurin habitats and kicking humans out of their ramshackle homes. Didn't sit all that well with me on my first playthrough. On the other hand, as an exile, you're starting out trying to save a guy's pregnant wife-- super "good guy" stuff. After playing the game, though, I really enjoy the dominion and don't find them all that much more evil than the exiles. Both sides do messed up shit, and chuas are too awesome to not play! They're adorable and have a pretty fantastic laugh emote. :P | |} ---- ---- ---- Point here is, Dominion did the evil thing first, we responded in kind. In order to fight the evil you sometimes must become Evil. And I see no shame in that. They level a house, we'll level a village, they destroy a city we'll destroy the city and thousand miles around it. Only logical choice here is for the DOminion to enter into negotiations. Since they are the root cause of this war. | |} ---- But...isn't Nexus the Dominion's because the Dominion was created by the Eldan, with people that have Eldan blood in charge? The Exile are trespassing. Shoo. | |} ---- ---- In the laws of claiming? No Exiles where here first, and we planted our flag claiming the whole planet. It is you who are trespassing! Now get off my lawn varmit! | |} ---- ---- No, you can blame the Human Exiles for Aboria, and not telling the Queen they were fugitives. The Dominion are trying to create an empire that spans all and unites all under one banner, and brings peace to the land. That mission was given to them by the Eldan. It's very similar to what the Emperor in Jet Li's Hero was doing. "Title card: People give up their lives for many reasons. Title card: For friendship, for love, for an ideal Title card: And people kill for the same reasons... Title card: Before China was one great country, it was divided into seven warring states. Title card: In the Kingdom of Qin was a ruthless ruler. He had a vision - To unite the land. Title card: to put an end, once and for all, to war. Title card: It was an idea soaked in the blood of his enemies. Title card: In any war there are heroes on both sides..." " I have just come to a realization! This scroll by Broken Sword contains no secrets of his swordsmanship. What this reveals is his highest ideal. In the first state, man and sword become one and each other. Here, even a blade of grass can be used as a lethal weapon. In the next stage, the sword resides not in the hand but in the heart. Even without a weapon, the warrior can slay his enemy from a hundred paces. But the ultimate ideal is when the sword disappears altogether. The warrior embraces all around him. The desire to kill no longer exists. Only peace remains." "Title card: The nameless warrior was executed as an assassin but buried as a hero. The King of Qin went on to conquer all of the six Kingdoms and unite the country. As China's first Emperor he completed the Great Wall to protect his subjects. This was more than two thousand years ago. But even now when the Chinese speak of their country They call it Our land." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1N0IvW6HyI That is what The Dominion is. They are trying to bring peace through Order. If you look at the superficial then yes They appear to be the bad guys but when you look a the core of it, They are the ultimate heroes, The Exiles are just causing more War and Strife and Pain by embracing Chaos. | |} ---- ---- Actually no. The Eldan did the evil first, the dominion responded in kind, and your third in line. And no, the dominion is not the root cause for the war, the Eldan are. | |} ---- Sure blame a race that isn't even around, that's what bullies do! Bully >:D | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Granok of the Exiles were dishonorably ejected from Gnox by their society The Mordesh unleashed a Pandemic and had to be quarantined, instead of hoping help was coming they broke Quarantine The Aurin were made example of, it's sad but when you have a brash reckless young leader, these things happen. The Exile Humans, this whole thing is their ancestors fault. Sorry but no, no sympathy for the Exiles. There is an easy way to get peace for the Galaxy and all. Anyone saying the Dominion are Monsters really need to make a dominion and LISTEN to the emperor's speech. He wants peace through Order. He's not a bad guy at all. | |} ---- Shouldn't you be hugging a tree, oh terroristic cat? Actually, it was the Mechari, the Eldan, and shortly thereafter the Luminai that I am blaming. I think. Or course, those crazy cat people aren't helping either. | |} ---- The Aurin didn't harbor fugitives. That's what people don't seem to get. The Aurin were not under the Dominion and therefore a sovereign state not subject to their laws. They were following their own laws by showing hospitality. The Dominion did not respect the sovereignty of Arboria and made the decision to declare unconditional sovereignty over Arboria for no reason. The Dominion have a policy of Dominion or Die and the Aurin have no such policy. They did not say "Exile or Die" to the Dominion. They would have gladly become a neutral party like the lopp or Protostar. The Granok are the true winners of this war. They said no to war period. They still have their planet. And while the Exiled Granok continue their search for a planet, you can easily say that the Granok are better off without the Dominion in their lives. Because the Dominion would have dragged them into an endless war. The only difference between Arboria and Gnox is the Granok won. The Aurin would not have pursued any hostilities because they are not a hostile race period. Only a hostile race would join the Dominion because the Dominion is a hostile organization. | |} ---- Again, to be fair. The reason Brightland started his rebellion was due to the Dominion response against rioting on their worlds. Lowborn citizens were rebelling against perceived injustices in their societal system. Note that this seems to have died down SINCE the war has started (Torian is Lowborn, for example, so they can rise to high ranks), but it is definitely a reason. My personal headcanon suspicion is that the Emperor that Myracalus deposed is behind the uncharacteristic Dominion choices, like quashing riots with extreme force and burning Arboria, possibly to see just the conflict that we are seeing. | |} ---- ---- ---- Do the first real zone (not Arkship + Crimson/Levian), and you will see a more broad picture of the Dominion. Though I will note that the tortured citizens were being scanned because an Exile saboteur had broken into the Dominion arkship and BRAINWASHED people, if you read the quest text. As in the Exiles are perfectly fine with getting rid of free will. | |} ---- No they were kicked off their planet for dishonor, the actual Granok are amazing, the Exiles Granok are Trash. The whole war with Falkryn in Galreas was because of Them too. Wow all this post is doing is making me want to delete my Exiles. | |} ---- I really like the Falkryn, want them as a playable species! *shakes Scott* Make them so I can play one Also want their lightning powers :P | |} ---- Yep, but the Exile players like to over look that. Hell I OVERLOOKED that before I did my lore research on Dominion and Exiles. Because I wanted to like the Exiles more. | |} ---- ---- Should try to hug one more, They resist hug harder >:D | |} ---- I like the Falkryn. -_- | |} ---- well, they are you know... likeable. and not monsters. Dominion players: "We want order!*" *Order being total and complete control over every last thing in the entire universe, by blood if it doesn't immediately bow down to us and abide by our laws. | |} ---- Does your Holy Roller, like kill tons of them though? I haven't met a single race on Nexus that thinks the Falkryn are cool. 'Cept maybe Protostar? | |} ---- ---- heh look sweetie we can fight all day like cats and dogs, in the end i give not flying care. I simply stated what i saw from both sides of the tale and both sides are the same on the evil spectrum. You may not like it you may keep the blinders on but in the end exiles are just as messed up and evil as the dominion. | |} ---- Except Dominion do not hug, means they are evil! Go ahead and try it, hug a Draken! | |} ---- On a side note, the lopp creep me out. Big time. Basically if you get to white vale and do the locate the groomsmen quest, you find a lopp near a cave surrounded by dead bodies. His fluff text goes something like this... "What did lopp do? What did lopp DO!?" "Nothing. Lopp do nothing. Lopp going back to village now." It was in that moment that I realized..... the lopp are way more evil then they let on. | |} ---- ---- Ooh The Lopp biggest Evil the Eldan ever created. We're all doomed! We gotta unite against this new evil! | |} ---- Bullcrap Dominion =Horde Draken = Orcs Cassians = Blood Elves Chua = Goblins I do know the whole story I've read all the lore on the battle of Gnox. The Exile Granok are dishonorable trash, I love the Granok race but would never RP as one of teh Exile ones, maybe one that got caught up in the exile due to family etc, The real Granok still on Gnox are awesome. I would play one of them all day. | |} ---- then you have not met the draken and some of the chua i know. arrie included, they enjoy hugs and honestly like aurin even though aurin annoy them at times with the constant save nature babble. | |} ---- ---- Mark my words, oh cat eared princess of adolescent fantasies, we have little information on the lopp. They are going to turn out to be one of Nazrek's creations. And nothing Nazrek creates is furry, loveable, or huggable. Probably agents of the strain anyways.... Never trust a seemingly innocent rabbit. I refer you to Monty Python for proof. | |} ---- Sorry the whole tone of this thread had me in hostile mode. So much misinformation in it. Declines hug but offers a fist bump *fist bump* ((I was the same way with Horde vs Alliance threads too.. You can tell i really love a faction when I start to get Hostile. haha.) | |} ---- ---- Yup, There was a HUGE thread about exactly this back a month or two ago (i believe it was in lore, maybe general though). People immediately stereotype the Dominion as evil because it's a centralized political power structure, rather than a non-extant one full of warring/ competing factions. What gets ignored is that Dominion citizens (low born included) have the highest standards of living in the galaxy; all citizens have equal access to education and are encouraged to advance in social status. The lowest of the lowborn have the same ability to move up in rank / station as any highborn. And that's not just lip service. The political heads of power in the Dominion are all Aliens / Lowborn. The head of the Dominions autonomous research and development legion is a Chua (Zax), the head of it's military is a Draken (Kezerak), the Head of the ICI is a Mechari (Axis) and the Head of the Radiant Legions ultra elite Radiant Legion is the lowborn Toric Antevian (one of the best characters in game IMO). The Emperor is a cool figurehead; but that's essentially it. The heads of power I mentioned act with quintessential autonomy over their political spheres (often to the displeasure of their peers; Zax and Kezerak hate eachother :) ) TLDR: The exiles and dominion are neither good nor evil. They are two different types of political entities that have different goals and values. Neither is wrong; but both are in conflict. | |} ---- Could be said about the Exiles as well. I don't think I need to remind anyone how often Avra lets her assassins lose on other exiles do I ? | |} ---- On a side note.... and its killing me.... Is the reference that got made during the Drusera quests.... that basically the Eldan had hit a wall in their creation of a "god being". And that the head of their order received technology from an unknown source that allowed them finish the project. What kind of race has "god maker" technology laying around that they just give away? Ok.. on topic... The really.... "scary" thing about the Black Hoods and Avra is that they operate in a compartmentalized cell structure. Kind of unnerving when you realize the entire Exile Covert Ops branch operates with complete autonomy and no oversight. Essentially trusting that a space zombie wont abuse her power.... | |} ---- That nearly made me spit my coffee out >.> I r not belf!!!! I don't prance around, have an awkward shoulder tilt while standing stationary, or fuss about my appearance. Lumini = belf, for sure. | |} ---- Not really. that's how I'd run a group of assassins. keeps the group from becoming compromised should one fail. They're fighting an enemy that torutures and murders it's own citizens for events well beyond their control(like being brainwashed while in cryo). imagine what they do to captured enemies. | |} ---- You haven't run across Avra's detention center in Whitevale have you? | |} ---- I dunno, maybe the would experiment on them to create a plague to wipe out all of a zone.... Kind of like what the Black Hoods did in Hycrest. But yeah, they are totally benevolent. Go exiles. *insert noisemaker and balloons here* | |} ---- My guess? the Lopp :) | |} ---- ---- 1st) Mondo didn't intentionally kill them; he was trying to reverse the brainwashing... and 2nd) 'enemy that tortures and murders it's own citizens' yup, Avra does this all the time, as do other less than savoury elements in the Exile faction. BOTH sides do it, and using the excuse 'well they do it so we can too' is a pretty bad justification for torture and murder :) | |} ---- We can do that same thing in opposite.... seriously, this is just a biased opinion. Cassian: humans tasked by the Eldan to create an equitable and just empire Mechari: Sentient crystals created for diplomacy that work to integrate all non-hostile sentients into the Dominion and keep it running smoothly Chua: Brilliant scientists who have revolutionized Dominion technology and science Draken: Honorable and proud warriors who uphold the law of the emperor Exile humans: banished terrorists who tried to solve civil unrest with open warfare. Mordesh: Promising alchemists who's hubris and arrogance unleashed a horrific zombie-apocalypse contagion upon their people, to the threat of the galaxy Aurin; vicious rodents who harboured violent terrorists; and refused to produce them to the Dominion. Granok: Dishonored mercenaries banished from their homeworld by their own people. Thugs and sell-swords with out dignity or self respect, so far into the bottom of a bottle they might never come out. We could do this all day. Point is Both factions have bad elements, and both have spectacularly good elements. | |} ---- You laugh, but I swear to god, those little mangy fleabeaten, rabies infested, genetic throwbacks are up to their anime eyeballs in some kind of dark plot. They remind of South Parks Christmas Critters. I'm telling you, never...ever...ever trust cute, cuddly, fuzzy things. They are always up to something. Just look at the Aurin. | |} ---- ---- Look at us what? *glares* Don't make me hug you! *hugs anyways* Imma hug tillyou blow up from fuzzy feelings! | |} ---- I resent that. I may look shifty but I don't care for long term plotting. | |} ---- That sounds an awful lot like Aurin Terrorism to me. And thanks. Now I have cat hair all over me.... gah..... On a side note: I've always found it interesting how one horrific act seems to excuse the use of another. You find it in references all throughout human history up to and including present day. Its interesting that a mindset like that follows us into a game. Because we choose to identify with a particular faction/race we often times excuse what is essentially inexcusable behavior.... Such as death by hugging. The truth is, nothing excuses the dominion or the exiles from the actions they have taken. It is horrific to torture and kill your own subjects whether you meant to or not..... just as its horrific to create a biological weapon of mass destruction and release it on a population. It is easy to justify such things in the name of insubstantial ideals such as "freedom" or "justice" or even "self defense." Truthfully it has been one of those internal philosophical debates that has always bugged me. At what point do you destroy yourself in the pursuit of your own defense? I mean, if you become the very thing you supposedly are fighting against, at what point does your defense become meaningless? Being an ethical sentient being is never going to be easy. It requires constant attention and evaluation of your own actions as well hard limits you set to avoid becoming what you fight. And if in the end, your ideals are so easily cast off in pursuit of "safety" or "freedom" then what exactly does that say about what you are, and who you have chosen to become? *BELCH* Whoa, that was way to deep for this early. So yeah....um..... breasts... who loves em? | |} ---- Well, see, when you say it like that, you distort and skew facts to serve your purpose. I was speaking objectively. Cassians are by no means creating an equitable and just empire - they ARE the top, in their minds. The Eldan said so! Mechari aren't diplomats. They just make sure the Dominion exists and does what it should. Whether that requires diplomacy or wiping out a race, they'll do it. I can't argue with what you said about the Chua. Though, the Mechari taught them most of what they know. Also conveniently leaving out their sociopathic tendencies, murders, "experiments" and so on. I also can't argue with what you said about Draken, but you're leaving out the fact that their entire life and culture is based on war. Which is not a good thing. --- The Exiles didn't try to solve civil unrest with war, they were attacked by the highborn during a rally, and fought back. What's wrong with defending yourself? As Ayita Sinnatus says, "No one should have to be afraid of their government." You know when the South tried to secede? Yeah, it wasn't because of slavery, it was because the North was becoming more and more neo-Communist, and the South wanted nothing to do with it. When they tried to secede, we had a full-blown war. People enjoy telling people what to do, and they don't like it when you take that away. The Mordesh != Victor Lazarus. His arrogance brought their problem, not their whole race's. And Victor IMMEDIATELY started working on a cure, and now dedicates his life to finding one. I think he's atoned for his problems. Not to mention that nearly all of Grismara was rooting for him. Oh, and you know why he started work on it? It's because he lost his wife, and didn't want to lose his daughter, or for other people to lose their families. Is that such a bad thing? The Aurin didn't know they were rebels, and if you honestly think Aurin are vicious, you need a reality check. ^^ Calling them rodents, I can tell where your bias is. :3 If you saw some rag-tag band of people short on food, not doing too well, and all that, would you immediately label them terrorists? As long as they're not violent or obviously bad people, I'd help them. That's just what the Aurin did. The Granok weren't mercenaries. They became mercenaries in order to save their planet from your "diplomats" the Mechari, along with a Dominion battalion. If they hadn't, the Granok wouldn't exist anymore. The Granok also have far more dignity than you could imagine, if you would read their lore without your bias attached. ^^ They saw that The Way of the Stone wasn't going to help their race advance anymore, so they chose to leave their way of life behind, and wander the galaxy in search of a purpose and a home. So, let's look at what is actually written, okay? Throw your bias out the window, and look at it objectively. The Dominion, as a whole, just aren't good people. Sure there are a few bad / good people on each side, but overall, the Dominion strikes me as more "evil", while the Exiles are more neutral / good. | |} ---- Hmm? Oh, chorry about that. Was waiting for the Vorios Point. *hands over the bowl back* | |} ---- So wrong. Victor Lazarin is not a hero in the eyes of the Mordesh. He's a savior to a reluctant and bitter people. Victor was about to be executed on Grismara when Avra Darkos saved his ass at the last second. She utterly despises the guy but she has the pragmatism of a mountain to realize that he's the only shot her people have at survival. Yes, he's been set on a redemption path but most of the mordesh bitterly respect the guy. I wouldn't be surprised if Avra discards him after he finds a cure and produces enough of said cure to cover the remaining survivors. | |} ---- Your response has nothing to do with what he posted. | |} ---- How? I'm not going to argue grey area between Exile and Dominion but just correcting "Rooting for him on Grismara", specifcally. | |} ---- ---- ---- I never said he was not. After the shit hit the fan, they wanted his head. Edit: I think we're referring to different timeframes. my b | |} ----